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tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  July 22, 2011 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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we're following up on important breaking news tonight. a 32-year-old norwegian man is in custody after today's deadly twin attacks in norway. the death toll is now at least 17. seven were killed in oslo where a bomb blasted through the city center. outside the capital, a gunman opened fire on a political
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meeting of young people killing ten there. police say the attacks are definitely linked. 19 people are hospitalized with injuries in oslo. no word yet on a motive for the attacks. the other huge story in washington, debt talks have broken down. late this afternoon, house speaker john boehner walked out of negotiations with president obama saying the two could not connect because of their different visions for the country. president obama was the first to respond. >> my expectation was that speaker boehner was going to be willing to go to his caucus and ask them to do the tough thing but the right thing. i think it has proven difficult for speaker baine for do that. i've been left at the altar now a cult of times. >> a short time later, speaker boehner hit back with this. >> let me just say that the white house moved the goal post. there was an agreement on some additional revenues.
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until yesterday when president demanded $400 billion more, which was going to be nothing more than a tax increase on the american people. but secondly, they refused to get serious about cutting spending and making the tough choices that are facing our country on entitlement reform. so that's the bottom line. dealing with the white house is like dealing with bowl of jell-o. >> president obama says he's told republican and democratic leader toss come to the white house tomorrow morning to explain "how we're going to not default on the nation's debt". boehner said he will be there. they have until august 2nd to raise the debt ceiling. this is a huge night. we'll have more of these breaking stories on "anderson cooper 360" at cnn. i'm tom foreman, piers morgan tonight starts right now. tonight the woman at the center of the case that transfixed america and the world.
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>> as to the charge of first degree murder, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. >> now she finally tells her side of the story as nancy grace. >> the devil is dancing tonight. >> tonight i'll turn the tables and cross-examine nancy on the casey anthony trial. also my exclusive interview with daniel baldwin. why he got a restraining order to keep his wife away from his two small children. >> you will never know i hope, piers, what it is like to have a 3 1/2-year-old child come into your bedroom and say, is mommy going to kill us? because she heard her mother say that. >> daniel baldwin. exclusively. he tells the whole shocking story. >> this is piers morgan tonight. casey anthony is a free woman after the jury found her not guilty in the death of her 2-year-old daughter. no one is more outraged by that verdict than nancy grace. her new book is "death on the d list." she joins me now. nancy, you followed this story
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probably more closely than anybody else. and you were clearly pretty outraged by the verdict. at the same time, you reiterated your faith in the american justice system. so what do you think went wrong here? >> well, piers, number one thank you for having me. i guess that at this point, knowing that tot mom has walked free leaves more of a sense of extreme disappointment, a feeling of being let down. because those of us that have devoted i would say my entire adult life to public service -- well, since the murder of my fiance back in 1979 -- to see a miscarriage of justice in a system that we hold so dear. i mean, piers, the justice system is something that i've held onto and believed in since keith's murder many years ago. and to see it fail is deeply upsetting to me. amidst claims that she's fielding million dollar offers
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and is considering plastic surgery and marriage proposals, it's very upsetting, piers. it's extremely upsetting. >> i mean, here's the thing, nancy. playing devil's advocate here. because i could tell the packs are running high. >> of course you're going to play devil's advocate. [ laughter ] >> i know what that means. [ laughter ] >> well, listen. i mean, you had an extraordinary run of success covering the trial. you made it your own. hln had a fantastic rating. >> wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. i didn't make anything "my own". this story is not my story. this story is caylee's story. and i remember the night that we first heard about the case. every day, every morning around 5:00 a.m., between 5:00 and 7:00 a.m. i get a list of about 70 to 80 cases. i start reading them alone in my executive producer dean. we go through those and many, many others. we go to every web site, every news outlet, to find the case
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we're looking for to cover that night. and when i heard the tot mom story, i heard about caylee, i said, that's it. that's the case we need to do tonight. that one. and my e.p. agreed. that was a long time ago. but it's not my case. this is caylee's case. and it is every parent in america's case. as a warning. >> i suppose the question from me to you as a legal brain is the inconsistency really between continuing to support the system, if you feel that it failed so much. what would you do differently in light of this trial, give than you believe it's such a miscarriage of justice? what else could -- i'm going to be fair. jurors were hounded mercilessly. >> that's like somebody saying i believe in god but i don't want to go to church because i hate organized religion. what a line. look, the justice system is made up of people.
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people have faults. it's not perfect. when i tried cases in inner city atlanta for a decade, i went into every jury trial knowing it was a crap shoot. knowing it all depended on the jury that i put in the box, the 12 i put in the box. and oh, that's old. but it was a scary thing for me. because i was always convinced that i could lose the case and there would be a miscarriage of justice. and there was one here. does that mean i don't believe in our justice system? no. to believe in our justice system and hold it dear, you accept it waters and all. >> i get all that. i've made it very, very clear in my coverage of this that i just don't know anybody who would not report a missing child for 31 days. that alone is appalling negligence. i don't really buy into the post-traumatic thing. i know there are some experts that believe this has been done before.
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i can't remember any case like this. so i'm totally with you on her failings as a mother, the appalling negligence, the fact that she didn't report it, the fact she went partying. all that stuff. but here's where i have a slight issue against your position. and it's involving the system itself. the jurors have been taking a lot of flack. and some have been hounded away from their homes which i think reprehensible. >> wait a minute. you mean one of them. let's get the facts straight. though. >> nancy? >> there's only one juror. >> the point i want to make is this. 90% i would say of all the legal experts i've had on, when i've really pushed them, all said that there was not enough hard evidence to link her to the murder of her child. lots of circumstantial evidence. and that beyond reasonable doubt element is one that is clearly the debatable point. but none of them would actually blame the jurors for failing to be able to be absolutely certain that she was directly linked to the murder of that child.
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you don't agree with that. why? >> okay. number one. to my knowledge, there is one juror that voluntarily quit her job and says she doesn't want to go home because she's afraid. afraid of what? she hasn't had a single threat. no one's said a word to her. did she voluntarily leave her job or does she think she's going to do a tell-all book and make a lot of money? so i would inspect her motives. so there's not a lot of jurors or even several jurors that have been hounded out of their homes. that's not true. number two, i don't know who the legal experts you've had on are, but having tried over 100 cases and taken guilty police in thousands of cases and argued before state skourts, i would be willing to suggest that your experts are wrong. because under our law, circumstantial evidence is deemed equal to direct evidence such as an eyewitness. in many, many cases, piers, you
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know this very well. in many cases you don't have an eyewitness to a crime. murders, rapes, child molestations. they don't happen out on the street all the time. they happen behind closed doors. so often there is not direct evidence of a crime. the state relies on circumstantial evidence as they did in this case. now, you're telling me that they don't think there was enough hard evidence. and i assume that your referring to direct evidence. there was a mountain of evidence pointing to guilt in this case. and i knew, piers, and you can laugh into your fist if you want, but on day two of jury deliberations, when the juror came in wearing a suit that morning? he knew they were going to announce the verdict. and what that says to me is that in less than say eight hours they had gone through weeks of testimony? they didn't even go through all the testimony. before they reached their verdict. and i think that that's wrong.
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>> i agree with you that the amount of time they spent deliberating was completely unacceptable for a case of this complexity. i think that was -- i would certainly criticize them for that. but i still come back to the main legal point, which very eminent lawyers have said to me on both sides of the argument, many of them agreeing that if it had been left to them they would have convicted but they could understand why the jury felt there just wasn't enough to be completely certain what had happened. if i was on a jury, i would want to see from my fellow jurors, would you? you must accept that. >> well, once again, under our american system of jury is prudence, the law is that you don't have to explain to a jury. although i would like to explain to a jury exactly how a murder occurred. but should a defendant such as tot mom casey anthony get a gold star? or a benefit because we cannot determine cause of death? because she had the body hidden for so long it decomposed out in
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a swamp? and when i think of this child being thrown out in a swampy, makeshift pit cemetery for her body to decompose, for animals to pull her limbs apart gnaw on her bones, why should tot mom get a benefit because the body was so decomposed? the law says she does not. your question was dead on, piers. you said a lot of people don't know how it happened. irdon't know how it happened. did she smother her? did she put tape over her nose and mouth? did she give her too much chloroform? i don't know that. but i know this child was killed. i know she lied about it. i know she put the child in the car trunk and put tape over her mouth and nose and she died. >> nancy, look. powerful stuff from you. i'd expect nothing else. when we come back after the break i want to talk to you about casey anthony. now she's been released. and what kind of life we can expect to see her leading.
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>> the sweet life. she had it tatooed on her shoulder, piers. boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh. aflac! oh, i've just got major medical... major medical. ...but it helps pay the doctors. pays the doctors, boyyy! [ quack ] oh yeah? what about your family? ♪ we added aflac, so we get cash! it's like our safety net... ♪ to help with the mortgage or whatever we need! so my family doesn't feel the pain too. ha!
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back with nancy grace who is
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already pretty fired up by this and, you know, i know your passions run high. i can only imagine how you felt when you saw cassie anthony walk free. what did you feel when you watched the images? >> well, i felt a huge disappointment. and then there is one shot of her where she has this kind of an eerie grin once she gets into the car. and it really just gives you a chill. what i'd really like tonight is who foot the bill for that private jet that picked her up at orlando executive airportdeposited her somewhere in california? i think i got a beat on it in that it was someone connected to a lawyer that was once on her defense team that later fell off the defense team, parentally due to bar complaints. but the bill for the private plane went to the same address as his office. so i think i know where the private plane came from. whether she was really on the
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plane, i don't know. i doubt she's lingering in the florida area. i think she's going on to the next bigger, better deal out in california. >> but should she be vilified now she has been released? she's been through a court case, a jury of her peers reached their verdict and on that basis she has been acquitted of killing her child. if we respect the legal process and the legal system, should she now be vilified in public? should she be allowed to lead the life she should want to lead? >> of course. that's what she wanted to do all along, piers. that's why she killed her child. that's why she got the tattoo, the sweet life. that's why she partied on a stripper pole in a mini skirt and pushup bra while caylee was missing, ie, rotting. her child was rotting. all right? you think i can put my head down on a pillow knowing 15 house as way from where i slept every night my child was laying in a
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swampy water muck? no. so, sure, live it up, casey anthony. go ahead. but you're forgetting, the justice system doesn't exist in a vacuum. you're forgetting something called the bill of rights. now i know you brits don't have that. but we do. and the very first one is freedom of speech. now why are you suggesting that the world can't comment on tot mom's not guilty verdict and her choice of lifestyle? hey, maybe she'll turn into sister -- mother teresa for all i know and do good works the rest of her life. but you know what? i'm not a betting person. but if i were, i would bet she's not going to turn into mother teresa. i would bet she's going to make all the money she can and run right through it on a high lifestyle. that's what i think is going to happen. >> no, the brits don't have the bill of rights nor do we have trial by television. >> trial by television.
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that doesn't happen because if that happened, this jury certainly wasn't listening to me. they came up with a not guilty. >> yeah. but you see, that in itself, the jurors then begin to see themselves as kind of big part actors because they're being beamed to the worldment and wherever you have seen the tril trials by television now involving notorious people, the results normally got wrong way to public opinion. and create -- >> i don't know what you just said. >> take o.j. simpson case. >> goes the wrong way to public opinion. what does that mean? >> that means that public opinion had been driven, i think, by the saturation and coverage on television and all the commentary so that most people were directed to believe and, you know, i'm sure you wouldn't deny the fact you were directly able to think this that this woman killed her child. >> actually, i have a lot more respect for my viewers. i think they can make up their own minds. and also it's funny that you would say that. because in our constitution, i
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guess you can compare it to the legislative history, the legislative minutes when laws are enacted in our country. someone is taking down everything that's being said as laws are passed by congress. we had something similar to that when the constitution was written. and our forefathers openly discussed, piers, how they wanted every courtroom in america to be big enough for the entire community to hear the trial. so there is no closed door justice or secret proceedings. the people that watched this trial including myself made their decision just because it doesn't agree with the jury's decision is a whole other can of worms. but america can listen and hear and evaluate the evidence just as well as you and i could. so that was their decision. i'm sure you saw the usa today poll which said two-thirds of america believes she's guilty. and that's their right to have an opinion and voice it. >> well, nancy, whether we come
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back, we want to talk to you about your days as a prosecutor and the tragedy that you referred to that led to you becoming a lawyer in the first place.
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we have had people working overtime, triple time, weekends, unpaid, nothing in it for any of us except we believe he killed
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her. >> that was from your days as a prosecutor. i have to say, i love the hair there. >> thank you. jealous? >> tell me -- honestly, i lot of fact that even then you had this firebrand attitude. i mean look at you smashing your stick. you were an aggressive prosecutor. very direct with your eye contact with the jurors there. clearly something that was a passion for you. i'm assuming that the passion for you was driven not least by the fact you yourself had been through this appalling tragedy of your fiance being killed by a co-worker. >> yes. there's keith. he got that black eye from a baseball. keith was in school on baseball
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scholarship to get his degree in geology and was almost through and was working a summer job. he was at a construction site. and he left at lunch time to go get soft drinks for everyone and when he -- pulled back into the site, a co-worker that had been fired was angry and had showed up at the site with a gun. and the theory was he was waiting for the boss that fired him but when he saw the truck, he just opened fire and he shot keith five times in the face,
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the neck, and the head. keith was still alive. when he made it to the hospital, he did not live. >> i can see now this is clearly hugely traumatic part of your life. it makes you very motional. i'm not surprised to talk about it now and seeing the pictures of you and keith together must bring back all sorts of memories for you. what happened to him spur you on to do? when you remember your feelings at the time, did it drive you on to finding justice for others? was it as simple as that? >> you know, piers, it's -- it's so complicated and i actually very rarely discuss it. other than eluding to it briefly if i'm asked questions about it.
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you know, piers, people always talk about closure. and they throw that around as far as cindy and george anthony they have closure it's all over. there is no closure. it's like breaking your arm. and you never get it set. but you learn to flip a pancake or sweep the floor. not the way you did before, but in a different way. yes, it affected my life. i went nearly 30 years without being able to really seriously entertain marriage or a family. in fact, the word marriage would actually give me -- actually physically have a shake when it was brought up. and i remember it was like a
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dark swirl after his murder. i couldn't eat. i couldn't drink anything. i lost down to about 89 pounds. i dropped out of school. i was at my parents home. i couldn't stand to hear the tv, the radio in the car. i couldn't stand to hear a clock tick. it was just too much. and i ultimately -- i went to go stay with my sister in philadelphia. she was a professor at the warten school of business at that time. i would sit on a park bench and watch students go by while she was teaching. and it dawned on me there that i had no idea what law school even was. but that i would go to law school. and that somehow i could make a difference. i had planned to be an english shakespearean professor hopefully at a graduate level.
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and i couldn't imagine being in a classroom the rest of my life. and that had been my dream. i'm sorry to say that since that time, i have never had the heart to open up a single shakespearean play or book. it's just -- i just can't. that was a different life and a different dream and a different girl. that girl is gone. but what i have now is a life that has been dedicated to seeking justice and very late in life god heard my prayers and answered them 10,000 time over by giving me twins and a husband that loves me and accepts me like i am. so it was not what i planned. but god gave me something very different. >> nancy, we'll take another short break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about your new marriage and the children you have, the way you are able to
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rebuild your life and propel your career into becoming one of the most high profile defenders of justice that this country has. >> thank you, piers. act my age? -why? -why? -why? [ female announcer ] we all age differently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer with roc®retinol and antioxidants. lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you. and i count on social security. here's what i'm not... a pushover. right now, some in washington want to make a deal cutting the social security and medicare benefits we worked for. with billions in waste and loopholes,
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nancy, before we went to the break, very emotional talking about your fiance being killed.
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you moved on and got married and had children. what do you think, when you get all this attention now and you've had all this success and you're so high profile and get criticized and praised in equal measure, when you get criticized, what do you think is the biggest misconception about you? all the criticism and all the praise doesn't amount -- it is not worth the salt that goes in my bread. tv is fickle. you can be loved one day and hated the next day. you know, one day you're getting an award and the next day you're getting a death threat. so what does it all mean? doesn't mean anything. what matters to me is that i try to do the right thing on air and off air. and what my children think of me, what they're going to read about me one day on the internet.
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what my husband thinks about me and my parents and my family. that's what matters to me. what keith thinks about me, how i live my life since he was murdered. i know he's watching. i know he's cheering me on. that's what matters to me. >> well nancy, you've been incredibly honest in this interview, more than i thought you were going to be about that part of your life. and, you know, personally, i love watching the show. i think you're a force for good. and i think that you are ballsy and aggressive but at your heart, you want to bring justice to people like caylee anthony. >> thank you, friend. >> coming up next, my interview daniel baldwin, why he got a restraining order to keep his wife away from their two small children. ♪ with diabetes, it's tough to keep life balanced. i don't always have time to eat like i should. and the more i focus on everything else, the less time i have to take care of me.
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daniel baldwin is no strange with struggles with addiction. daniel says his wife was in a drunken rage and threatened to kill him. he filed a restraining order to keep her away from him and their two small children. daniel baldwin joins me now. welcome back to the show. this is all very depressing, i would imagine for you and your family. how has it come to this? >> well, you know, we're trying to recover ourselves emotionally and psychologically from some of the events that took place in
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the house that led to these papers being filed. but it wasn't, you know, a one off event. i mean you're right in assuming that there has been a steady build up in this. joann got a dui a year ago june and placed on probation and has had some problems with violations of probation previous to this. but let me just tell you something. we have skated on the charlie sheen issue and some other people before on your show. remember something. the sheens love charlie. and the lohans love lindsey. and the baldwin's loved daniel when he went through his problems as we love joann. so the filing of these papers were strictly and solely because i needed to protect my children. so, you know, that's why this occurred. >> i mean the papers make dramatic, really. i have them in front of me here. there is an entry where she is highly intoxicated in our home. she gets upset over money and proceeds.
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to wake both children up by screaming and throwing objects around the house. she throws and hits me in the face with the phone. she threatened to kill me with a knife and warns me she will eventually kill me all in front of our children. and in the next page this is your handwriting, she came out of our bedroom and claim she watched a documentary on women who killed their husbands. she explained, now i know how to do it. i understand why they did it. you have been warned. move out of this house or i'm going to kill you. this was said in front of the two children. i mean pretty extraordinary stuff this, daniel. how did you feel when your wife said this to you? >> well, i think -- i think you need to remember, too, that she is from time to time a blackout drunk. when she had her du i, she actually struck another car and hit a man at 40 miles an hour putting him in the hospital and she has in recollection of that incident. so i think she's capable because
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of what i think is alcoholism of doing things in a blackout she really doesn't have any memory of and any control of. but there lies where being a responsible parent comes in. i've never been on the opposite side of the continuum, piers. i was the one that blew a relationship previous to this. that was not a good and effective father due to my addiction. and i have to tell you the only good thing that has come out of this has been the fact that in the 12-step program, step nine is that you make amends to those that you have harmed except when to do so would do harm to them or others. i've had to go back to a number of people in my family, loved ones and say my god, i'm so sorry. i had no idea what you were feeling. i knew what i did. but i never had to feel it before. now i'm on the opposite side and it's just an awful and helpless feeling to watch someone that you love disintegrate. >> why are you doing this interview? what do you hope to achieve by
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speaking publicly about this? >> well, i'll tell you a few things. number one, i have been inundated with people requesting interviews that are showing up in my driveway, that are parked in front of my house with news vans with the big satellite dishes. i said it's time to go to a place where i address this. i get it out there. i -- what were my goals and what it is -- a lot of people asked why did i file for divorce? the answer to that is she needs to understand that this is an ultimatum now. i can always reverse that or stop that should she decide to get help. i'm not going to deny her the opportunities i had myself. i need to draw that line in the sand. to answer your question directly why am i doing this? because this is a relationship that i've had previous to this situation where i've spoken about addiction before. i felt very comfortable speaking with you. not to mention the fact that i watch your show a lot and i think you're very fair.
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so i wanted to go into a forum where i wasn't going to be beat up, i was going to be asked both sides of the questions which i think you do effectively. >> i mean i'm going to play devil's advocate having said that with you. honestly, you went through a well documented period of substance abuse. you were arrested four times that we can locate. you were clearly going through a pretty hellish time yourself n a way, you've been where joann is now. and you know how difficult this kind of situation is. what do you hope is the end game here, daniel? is part of your thinking on this as she cleans herself up you can get back together as a family? is this a short shock treatment you implemented here? >> i won't rule any of those things out right now. i'm going to stick to the letter of the law. you know, there are certain things you may ask me that i have to defer to my attorney here in portland. but i think i can kind of answer
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this question and that is, no, right now i filed for divorce. i intend on getting divorced. i have a protection order for myself an my children because i cannot control what someone else does and i am quite fearful of the next time something like this erupts. it escalated into physical violence on her part. so i have to do what i have to do. my first responsibility has to be to my personal well-being and more over my children and their personal well-being. you'll never know, i hope, piers what it is like to have a 3 1/2-year-old child come into your bedroom and say is mommy going to kill us? because she heard her mother say that. now, of course, i don't believe that mommy is going to kill her, not while i'm there. but is it possible that when i'm out working on something if i leave them in they are protection and under her custody that she could get intoxicated and do something or even do something irresponsible by leaving a door open or leaving -- absolutely. absolutely. that's very possible.
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and there lies the on going fear that occurs in my life. either she's going to drink too much and she's going to act upon some of these threats that she's made or is she going to do something incredibly irresponsible and the child will fall out of a window or something like that. i'm not going to wait around to find out the answer to that. i'm going to make sure that doesn't happen as their father. >> daniel, it's obviously very troubling time for you and your personal life. when we come back, i want to talk to you about more positive stuff about your extraordinarily talented family and what you're up to at the moment. every day, all around the world, energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing decades of cleaner burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self contained well systems and using state of the art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment
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that looks like a giant grasshopper. >> look out. >> that was on nbc, daniel baldwin was and that with his brother. always a pleasure being in a reality show with your brother. i would say it was something that would rush to do again. your credit brave being in the jungle with him. >> anytime that i have to be in a jumble of race situation that there might be danger, i want other people around me if i am with stephen.
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>> an extraordinary family. go ahead. >> i was going to say you did a reality show and you got a dose of steven, i saw you get frustrated with him. >> he drove me absolutely bonkers. i don't know how on earth you deal with him. i have to say having said that, he was good fun and he was a trier, he never gave up. the interesting thing about the balkans, you have all been through the rough-and-tumble of life. your survivors, all of you. tell me about the baldwin family eat those. what is it that keeps you going? >> i think it is that we have certain things that was instilled in us from my mother and my father as we grew up. we grow up in that town on long island which was known for its predominant number of jews and italians. we were like the kennedys with no money. we were the overachieving black
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irish catholic family with all of these kids that did pretty well in athletics and grades and ran for student office and everything. my dad was a high school teacher in our hometown that taught at the other high school. our archrival everything skidding day was my father. he was a football coach at the school that we had to play for bragging rights. there was a real sense of competition that came in that house which i think is part of the survival skill that you see. there was definitely a fierce competitors an edge that lies in all six, the girls, too. >> who are you closest to, which to say? >> i would say i am closest to billy. i have a certain understanding with stephen which is almost like a bodily thing. when my dad got sick, stephen was an sixth grade in grammar school and i was a senior in
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high school. i got the football coach at our school to allow stephen to be like the manager, stephen whatever run from grammar school over to our school and spends three or four hours a day with me, my dad dying of cancer. i have a unique bond with stephen but it is more of a father kind of thing than it is from my brother. is brotherly now that it was a unique relationship. alec and i were fierce competitors, he is older than i am so we beat each other up for everything there was including food at the dinner table. their relationship is still very similar. we still are very competitive with each other. it is a constant worry game that billy is my next youngest brother and when he and i have a bond, we both play a sport in high school that unless you play it, you'll never know the
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dynamic. we were wrestlers and when you are in that room, it is something that i cannot explain. not like playing football together, when you are a wrestler those relationships you will maintain for the rest of your life, a close-knit very smaltite sport. >> than enough, i was keen to wrestling with stephen in celebrity apprentice. possibly to the death that one stage. >> i can see that. i graduated with him to boxing, what i prefer to do with stephen. >> tell me, you mentioned that the kennedys analogy albeit without the money, interestingly alec has been flirting with politics. i read his twitter feed, engaged in it quite often. he is political and raises lots of issues. i suspect he is mulling over the possibility of a political career. there is talk of possibly
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running to be new york mayor. do you think he is serious about this stuff? >> i think that you have been caught like many other people in this web because i think it has always been a plan. there had been open discussions with people for many years about what would be the most effective way to launch this. i have been privy to one of those initial conversations some years ago about where to start. i think it would be a brilliant move for him in 2012 to run for mayor because in the city itself, he is very popular. as you branch outside of the city, from the governor or senator or any of the things you would aspire to be, i think he would run into stiff competition. he would also run into last allies then he would, shelly said, had he run for new york. keep in mind a launching pad to bigger and better offices is surpassed by none when it comes
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to a mayor of new york city. people that have been there before that have been considered tickets for the president of the united states. i think he is definitely more than just thinking about it. i have a strange suspicion he will run in 2012. he will probably winter >> obviously if you are competitive as his kid brother, you've got to start recognizing the appalling possibility that if he ran and became new york mayor then potentially four or eight years later you might be hearing the worst decision brother alec, you can call me mr. president. >> what i have been thinking about and i am always looking into, how long would it take me to get my law degree if he goes there because it will be at least two terms in gracie mansion. could i get my law degree so i could be the attorney general when he goes to the white house? i am thinking about myself. >> it is all about you, isn't it? >> of course, at the end of the
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day. >> it would be something poetic about the no money kennedy's reaching the echelon of power. you would get the people's vote, i think. >> yeah, i think there are a lot of people out there. ronald reagan, alec and i had a laugh when he was made president because it was surely actor going to politics? ronald reagan arguably at best becomes governor of california which as its own nation would be the tenth largest world power. he is governor of california and then becomes a two-term president and he wasn't even a great actor. in my opinion, the smartest guy in the world, either. nancy was the brains of the operation and he becomes president. we left and look at each other and said we can do both? become actors and then if there
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wasn't a lawsuit, arnolds schwarzenegger to be the president of the united states which is pretty scary. >> i think he would be a good president. i wish you every double up with your domestic issues. they sound pretty awful to go through and for you and your family, good luck. lock with her family's desperation to become the new kennedy's. i will be watching with interest. >> we will see what happens. right now my biggest issue is continuing to get in good shape. i am working very hard. >> you are looking pretty good to me. you have lost a lot of white. >> i did. i have lost 55 pounds on this incredible workout system and you can look it up. >> it is the most amazing- >> and out of the shameless plug. >> reporter: bomber, said stephen my worst, he would expect nothing